Monday, June 30, 2008

How to put together (your life and) a K99/R00 proposal

So you need to get any combination of the following:
  • Your shit together
  • Some research funding
  • A more independent job
If you are like most people, you probably do not work in So-and-so Famous Lab and have So-and-so Famous graciously handing off fully-formed R01 proposals and setting up lunch meetings for you with collections of other Famous Faculty who can think of nothing better to do with their time than help you out with your life, who pick out just the right faculty position (or other job) for you, make a few phone calls and BINGO you’re in the club. YOU TOO can take matters into your own hands: even just the process of applying, revising and resubmitting for a K99/R00 Pathway to Independence award from the NIH will help you get that shit together, whether you get it funded or not.

I am going to try to create an informal guide, based on my own experience as an A2 awardee, on how best to approach this award and revise for success if you don’t make it on your first time around. The most important thing that I cannot stress enough is DON’T TAKE REJECTION PERSONALLY. Don’t let a bad score permanently destroy your motivation—read the critique, do everything in your power to address it and TRY AGAIN.

This award is still in the wild-west phase—its first cycle was early 2006, and it has been feeling itself out over the past few years while the first couple sets of awardees made it through their mentored K99 phases and transitioned into their R00 segments. Its advantages are many: up to 2 years of post-doc funding, 3 years of funding to start your own lab, the cache on your CV, the focus of direction that it forces upon you, etc. A few kinks are still being worked out—given the painful slowness of the turning of the NIH gears, it’s relatively common for the awardees to already have a tenure-track faculty position offer, or at least some other kind of job offer that involves them moving on. It is just not practical or possible for senior post-docs (towards whom the award is aimed) to sit around by the phone waiting to hear the good news for 6-9 months (for a first submission, which can stretch to 2 years over the revision period) rather than moving on with their lives. What this means for you: APPLY EARLY! Don’t wait until you are in your 3rd-4th year to get started if you can possibly help it. BUT if you do for whatever reason wait that long, APPLY ANYWAY.

Like all NIH funding these days, K99/R00 awards are extremely competitive. Apparently they took away the K01 option and rolled it into this, so this really is one of the only transitional funding opportunities around right now. Even the Burroughs-Wellcome Biomedical grant seems to have been cut out because they said “Hey, now there is an option for you guys so we’re stepping out." It is not easy to get a K99/R00 funded, even if your research is really freaking cool and you have a great mentor. Here, however, are some key details to how to get as close to funded as you possibly can.

General notes

  1. Don’t be as ambitious as you think you need to be. Take the system (i.e. which cancer, which other disease, which organism) your lab works with and keep the fundamentals the same. Change the technology or angle to make it your own, rather than going out on a limb and starting with something totally different than what your mentor(s) have published experience in.
  2. If you do need/want to move to a new disease or organism or what have you, keep the technologies/angle the same as your mentor(s). The key is to take a relatively straightforward next step, make it your own, and find some innovative (but conservative) thing to do with it.
  3. Find an off-campus collaborator of your own. Someone who is well-known in the area but has little to no official affiliation with your mentor(s), and who has experience in whatever NEW feature of the work you are trying to make your own. Best thing is to meet them at a Gordon or similar research conference/retreat, where there is time to have a nice chat. Contact them politely and ask if they would be willing to collaborate with you on your exciting project. Ask if you can spend at least a month in their lab learning something they do (at your expense). The worst they can do is say no or not reply, so have a few lined up to try contacting.
  4. Assemble an “informal mentorship committee” that consists of the off-campus collaborator, a junior faculty member on campus, a senior faculty member on campus, and your official advisor. Ask them to act as assessors on your progress. Offer to write drafts of support letters for these people, and make those drafts address the context of their involvement (e.g. “I am delighted to offer my support and advice to X as they prepare their transition towards independence… Based on my expertise in area blank, I am happy to work with X to assess their progress on topic-blah-blah both at the time of transition and as they begin their independent position…” etc.)

The proposal

The proposal for this award requires two major sections: The Candidate and the Research Plan. Both of these need to fit into 25 pages total, and the split should be somewhere between 5-6 pp The Candidate and 19-20 pp Research Plan. I am not going to spend much time on the strategic formatting of the research plan itself. There is an excellent series on R01 proposal strategies here, for which all the same principles and most of the details apply to writing your K99/R00 research plan. However, I will give some tips that address some issues that are more specific to the K99/R00.

1. The Candidate
  • “Summary of research experience to date:” Be succinct. Do not tell your life story in flowery language, keep it straightforward but highlight any significant research experience or awards you have gotten along the way. Provide a short (2-3 sentences) description of each project’s goals and accomplishments.

  • “Graduate project description:” Write up a sub-one-page description of your Ph.D. project, addressing the three main things (in this order for maximum clarity) that anybody cares about any given research project:
    • What was the big picture point?
    • What systems/technologies did you use (specific aim-style) to address that big picture point?
    • How did your contribution turn out (advances you made, papers you got published, funding you won along the way)?

      Any more than that and the snooze factor kicks in. If you think you can’t describe the big picture about your project because it was so complex or obscure or specific, then you just need to learn how to communicate better. Everything can be described in this simple of a format, and if you can’t do it, that illustrates that the problem lies with your ability to describe your work, not the work or the readers.

  • “Current research training project:” 1-2 sentences outlining the purpose of your current (i.e. last couple of years of post-doc) work (if you are currently funded for it, make sure you stick to describing the work you have money for and not whatever other random stuff you’ve been doing instead!)

  • “Current project description:” Similar to graduate description, sub-1 page explaining the big picture, and specific aims of your current project.

  • “Discussion of current research and training program:” This is not redundant with current project description, it expands on it. This is a more thorough characterization of the type of “training” you have been getting from your environment, e.g. new techniques, new biological systems, new analytical or statistical methods; and why they are important to your development as a scientist. You also get to walk through what advances you have made towards those specific aims you listed in d. and any papers that have come out of it.

  • “Career goals and objectives, a.k.a. Scientific biography:” This is a weird one. This part is like that college entrance essay you have to write to make yourself try to stand out. You want to avoid sounding too forced or too boring, and don’t write too much. Generally keep it less than 4 paragraphs, don’t be too reflective just try to give your “mission statement” in a digestible chunk.

  • “Career development/Training activities during the award period:” DO NOT BLOW THIS PART OFF. Don’t just give some stock language about the courses your university offers in finding faculty positions or some crap. Here is where you have the opportunity to stand out, since most people just use boilerplate language. A few suggestions for looking more creative:
    • Describe your informal committee. Use bullet points to list them, and give a short paragraph about how you will meet with them once every six months or something (you don’t actually have to do the meetings, but try).
    • Describe a visit to your outside collaborator’s lab, what aspects of your mentored phase specific aim(s) you will address with their help.
    • Suggest a specific small research meeting or outside course you will attend to learn more about some aspect of your mentored phase specific aim(s). Example: plan to attend a Cold Spring Harbor course, or if you are proposing proteomics, suggest attending the Seattle Proteome Center’s informatics course, provide a link to the course.

  • “Training in the responsible conduct of research:” This can just be boilerplate.

2. Statements by the Sponsor, Co-Sponsor, Consultant(s) and Contributor(s)
  • DO NOT BLOW THIS OFF EITHER! The mentor/sponsor statement is extremely important. If you don’t trust your mentor to write a good one, you need to write it for them and get them to sign off on it. The focus needs to be about what they believe your potential to be based on your previous work/behavior in the lab, and a big part of it needs to be spent on what opportunities they will provide you to learn new things, what their expertise offers you for training, how you get to take whatever you do with you, corroborations of support for outside activities like the ones you described in your career development/training activities section, etc.
  • Who supports you is a bigger deal than you think. If you work for a younger, less-well-known PI, you will need a heavier hitter on your sponsorship committee. Find someone (preferably at your institution) who works in the area you are proposing who can serve as official “co-mentor” to you on this proposal. Do the same thing as for other support letters: offer to write a draft for their approval. Having an established vs. non-established name on here will make a difference between whether you get triaged or scored first time around, and you are not trapped if your PI is new—you just need to also get somebody more settled to sign on.
  • These one or two statements should be included in the text, but you can attach other support statements (e.g. from your informal committee members) in the appendix or whatever.
3. Environmental blah blah: Boilerplate

4. Research Plan

Like I said, not going to spend much time here, just outline a few points specific to laying out the mentored vs. independent phases.
  • Specific aims: Separate into mentored and independent phases. Do not try to have more than 1-2 aims for the mentored phase. Make the mentored phase aim(s) involve any characterization of new parts of your idea, system or techniques. Use the independent phase aims to expand on what you can establish in the mentored phase aim(s), but don’t be too ambitious even in that independent phase—stick to things that logically follow on from what you can do in 1-2 years of the mentored part.
  • Background and significance should apply to the whole project, not to one phase or the other.
  • MAKE SURE YOU HAVE SOME RELEVANT PRELIMINARY DATA. This requires having a mentor who lets you generate some probably on their dollar and time, so straighten that out with them beforehand.
  • Give a timeline for the mentored phase. Suggest chunks of time that it should take you to address various parts of the mentored phase aim(s), and where you will do them (which mentor’s lab, on or off campus, etc.).
  • Make sure you split mentored and independent phases fairly equally page-wise. It is easy to spend too much space on the mentored phase section, since that is the part you know exactly what you will do for the next year or so. But flesh out the independent phase fully and thoroughly—you can’t leave it hanging as if you’ll figure it all out when you get there, you have to have a plan for how you will set it up, what the pitfalls are, and what alternatives you have in mind for when things need to be adjusted.

Revisions

Revisions are almost surely going to happen to you. Use them as an opportunity to look flexible and ready to learn, and also to genuinely improve this package you have begun to put together. I learned more about my project, my ideas, myself, and how to write a grant from going through two rounds of revisions than I would have from getting it the first time around. These pointers here apply to any revisions, not just for this grant, but I figured I would give you details of what worked for me.

In order to make your revision as successful as possible, always always make changes from the last version very clear. Underline or what have you, don’t worry about it looking messy because at least they will be able to find it if it stands out. Write your Introduction to revised/resubmission (which goes at the beginning of any resubmission) with your reviewers’ energy and attention levels in mind:
  • Start with an intro “Resume and response to summary statements” describing what good and bad things they had to say last time (quoting from the summary statement in italics or something like that), briefly outlining what you changed and what is new since last time
  • Define what you have used in the main proposal text to highlight changes (did you underline, or italicize, or what?)
  • Have sections with headings like “Specific response to Critique #1”
    • In these, go through point by point the criticisms (quoting the reviewer) and how you address them (new data? New aim? Took out an aim? New description of pitfall and alternative?). Give page numbers in the new revised proposal for them to refer to.
    • Keep it short and to the facts, no excuses or emotional descriptions of how important you thought something was, just DO WHAT THEY SAY.
  • The less work they have to do to see that you clearly addressed all the critiques and fixed the issues the last reviewers had with your proposal, the better off you are. Use paragraph, heading, and font style changes to delineate each thing you want to draw their attention to, and they will have no choice but to admit you did everything that was asked of you and improved the proposal.

Wrap up

This probably isn’t a comprehensive document (even though it is this long), and it won’t guarantee you the funding or a job. BUT just the process of bringing something like this all the way through the system will get you ready to go on the job market, even if you don’t get the money. A well-scored (albeit unfunded) K99/R00 proposal (or even one that got any critiques at all) can serve as the foundation for your chalk talk, helping you get all those little ducks in a row that you never realized you needed to deal with to explain to other people why they should invest in your opportunity to run the project. You have to have your shit together to deserve an independent position, and the very application for this award is a training experience in and of itself that will prepare you for what lies ahead. It's scary how you don't realize this until you are through the grinder of having tried it.

42 comments:

CC said...

If you are like most people, you probably do not work in So-and-so Famous Lab and have So-and-so Famous graciously handing off fully-formed R01 proposals and setting up lunch meetings for you with collections of other Famous Faculty who can think of nothing better to do with their time than help you out with your life, who pick out just the right faculty position (or other job) for you, make a few phone calls and BINGO you’re in the club.

Also, he'll send over a few NAS members to do your laundry and wash your car. I did work in So-and-so Famous' Lab, and that's pretty much exactly how it was!

drdrA said...

Awesome post....

Arlenna said...

Yeah me too cc, it was like I was a made woman. He's even offered his firstborn child to be my nanny while I do the mom/lab thing.

(i.e. even being in So-and-so Famous' lab doesn't make your life easy, in fact damn mine was made hard sometimes by it)

Thanks drdra :)

pinus said...

great post, full of useful information. I have a funded K99/R00 as well. The timing of these things are atrocious..too soon and you aren't competitive enough, too late and you have 'issues' about starting a job too soon after starting the K portion. Not to mention revisions! I was lucky, I was in once and done...if I had revisions, I would have just converted it to an R01 (assuming I got a job without one of these, which perhaps would have been unlikely)

pinus said...

follow up question:

Have you converted your K99 to the R00 phase yet? If so, roughly how long have you been on the K?

my program officer told me that they (the NIH) adopted an unofficial minimum of 1 year on the K part before you can convert to the R part.

I do not think that they understand the timing issues of finding a new job.

Arlenna said...

So, heh, actually I am one of those people who already had something lined up by the time I even got awarded the initial K phase. Here is how it is working out for me:

My initial application was in June, 2006. The first possible resubmission on that timeline was March, 2007. The next possible resubmission was Nov. 2007. My A2ness fit the profile of a lot of people: proposal was substantially different between A0 (scored at 190) and A1 (scored at 163), but only slight additions and clarifications were made between A1 and A2 (scored at 141). That means my initial application for the grant was 2 years ago--and at that point I was already a 3rd year postdoc.

I applied for jobs starting fall 2006. I didn't have much luck at first, there were some sniffs (contacting my references) but no interviews until spring 2007. Finally this fall 2007 I found a position open, applied, and although they did not think me suitable for that particular position they really wanted to hire me so they managed to get a 2nd opening created in the department.

I had resubmitted my A2 about six months before my interview there, and had my score by my 2nd interview, but did not get confirmation of being in the payline until May 2008 and only just got final council approval last month. I am supposed to start my faculty position in August.

It's a tricky business, and I have been talking extensively to the program officer about it, and we have a solution worked out. I am going to be superstitious and not talk about the solution until after everything is fully activated, but at that point I will be more comfortable telling the details of what happens.

Ultimately though, they are willing to work we me and my new department to make something work out so that I am still awarded the K99 portion initially and we will transition to the R00 at some point over the next year. I was extremely relieved to hear that, because I was so grievously worried that somehow things were completely screwed for this funding I had been working towards for two years over a catch-22 technicality.

pinus said...

I am in a very similar situation with the K99 and a new position. I started applying for jobs around the same time I submitted my K99 application...after what felt like forever, it went to study section and did well enough that I didn't have to resubmit. One of the places had me back for interview #2 and offered me a position. Everybody (program, me, new institute, current PI) is working together to make sure nothing screws the pooch with the award. I understand your desire to keep mum until the deed is done. I am in the same boat...and it gets a little weird.

I now just wish the award would change from pending to awarded on the commons!

Arlenna said...

Yes, I had to wait a few days between my first jolt of fear and my phone call with the PO, and it was totally excruciating. I have not been so nervous in a long long time. I attempted to drown my sorrows by staying up until 3 am watching all 6 hours (in a row) of the BBC adaptation of Pride and Prejudice. It helped a lot, to be transported to a world where women's biggest problems were who they would marry (although granted, that issue was a much bigger potential source of true lifelong hardship than it is these days).

Mine has changed to awarded, it should do so within about a week after your council review date. Mine was 6/17, and I just checked the other day on Commons and it was changed.

Arlenna said...

And as a further aside, our situations illustrate one of the kinks that needs to be addressed with these awards.

The target audience for the award is precisely the people who will end up in this kind of situation. Either the review period needs to be substantially shortened, so you can get your summary statements and revise within one cycle rather than two, or they need to figure out some way to allow extensions of NRSAs or something similar to act as the K99 phase. Or, they need to change the eligibility and requirements for the K99 phase so that it is okay to do the mentored segment on a tenure track, as long as it is within a certain amount of time from starting (such that you have to have applied and been reviewed while you were still a postdoc).

Otherwise, it is inevitable that the top funding candidates will also be top job candidates all within the same year of their lives.

pinus said...

well said arlenna!

now if only the big cheeses at the NIH would read that and understand!

Anonymous said...

Hi Pinus/Arlenna, Congratulations for getting K99-R00 award. I am a new player and I applied for K99 in feb 2008 for the first time and got priority score 250 !!!! I am feeling so much disappointed. I am still waiting for comments. I would be thankful for your any suggestions/feedback.

Arlenna said...

Try the strategies I suggest in my post for re-writing your submission. And keep trying, the more you do it the more you can learn from the critiques!

Anonymous said...

Hi Arlenna,
great post! I am now preparing my K99 application hoping to be able to submit in October. I am a Postdoc and my institution is fully supporting me and clearly told me that I can have a faculty position and my own lab if the R00 phase gets funded. The thing I am concerned about(that you did not mentioned too much in your post) is some kind of "resistance" from my mentor who is not happy that I am using my time to apply for this grant instead than writing R01 grants for him (where he is PI and I cannot even be coPI). If it is already difficult to write a K99, you can imagine what a nightmare it becomes in this conditions...I guess he did not understand that I will have to take my own route one day.
How was your experience about this? Any strategic suggestion?

Arlenna said...

That's really unfortunate, and I'm afraid as you can see I don't have very much specific advice on that. I had two mentors, and both of them were very supportive of me in applying for the award.

Depending on how well you feel you can communicate with your mentor, you might be able to sit down with him and explain how important it is to you to be able to apply for this independent funding, and how it will look really good on his own CV to have a K99/R00 trainee who goes on to become successful--not to mention that at many institutions, the indirect costs can some back to the lab in some way (which would mean a few thousand for his lab along with your mentored phase stipend).

Unfortunately, in post-doc-type positions we are totally dependent on the personality of that person, since it is not a normal kind of 'job.'

If your mentor just can't (or won't) understand, I advise finding someone else at the institution who is willing to sponsor you, and just do your utmost to work on the K99 proposal in time outside that you spend working for the person who gives you your paycheck. But hopefully he will see the light (and see that it is his JOB to support you for things like this) and let you spend some time on it.

Anonymous said...

Great post! I wish I had read this earlier. I applied with the June 08 deadline and just got my score (172).
Reviews are not posted yet, but I just realized that I made a very stupid mistake: the candidate + research plan sections of my application exceeded the 25 page limit (28 pages). How frustrating! Most likely I will work on resubmission. Does NIH have a formal instruction for revision?

Arlenna said...

They don't really have formal instructions for the revision beyond the inclusion of an "Introduction to revised/resubmission application." I suggest, based on my experience and the advice I got from many others with years of NIH experience, that you follow a format like the one I describe in the "Revisions" section of the post so you can make a checklist of all the things to clean up when you revise.

Good luck!! Starting from a 172 on your revision is a pretty good spot! Find a few significant changes to make in response to your review writeups (summary statements) and you will be well on your way! The newly announced limit on number of revisions won't apply to you yet, so you should have one more chance if your next one doesn't go quite high enough to make it through.

Anonymous said...

Would you say that not having preliminary data is a one-way ticket for a bad score in all cases? What if a collaborator has, say, published previously using 1/2 of the reagents needed -- with a letter of collaboration, can these be included in preliminary data as reagents previously prepared and to be used in the proposed work? Or must the preliminary data be completed by the applicant?

Arlenna said...

I can't say for sure, because I am not a reviewer for these, but I am just about positive that no prelim data would mean a lower score. Since most people will have some degree of prelim data, you would have to really blow them away otherwise to even make it out of the triage pile... :( The prelim data really needs to be your independent work, otherwise it doesn't really count.

See if you can do what I did, and spend a month or so in that collaborator's lab working up some prelim experiments, and that may solve your problem...

Anonymous said...

I submitted a K99 at the Feb 12th deadline and have been assigned to the August/October council round. I noticed on the CSR website that there was a K99 review special emphasis panel this past Wednesday, March 18th, at my IC. Of course that is too soon to be handling my grant; rather, it seems reasonable to expect that my review meeting will be 4 months later, or July 18th. Anyone have any thoughts on this reasoning?

Arlenna said...

It's probably way too early, since the reviewers would barely have had time to read them yet... but emailing your program officer (their email is in your eraCommons page for this submission) is the best thing to do in this situation. They can answer the question directly for you, and probably tell you exactly when your review date is going to be.

Anonymous said...

I did email my PO and my guess was correct. K99s submitted to my IC at the Feb 12 deadline will be reviewed July 16th or 17th. Fingers crossed!

(Anyone following this thread have any helpful comments from the March 18th round of summary statements?)

Dr. O said...

I haven't read through all of this yet...but thank you, thank you, thank you! Hoping to get one of these together later this year, and hopefully there will be some jobs available next year...

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for putting this post together. I was just about to structure my K99 and I know now where to start... Mel

Arlenna said...

I am so glad this is useful to people! When I first wrote it I had no idea this many people would be able to benefit.

Anonymous said...

Thanks a million for sharing your experience from which I learned a lot! I got the official notification that my K99 application (submitted in June 2008) was awarded. I am very surprised because my priority score is very mediocre and I was actually preparing to resubmit. Now I have some new questions:
1) Can I adjust part of my aims, for example, change or modify one aim out of my 3 initial aims?
2) Do I have to terminate my postdoc fellowship from a non-NIH foundation?
3) What if I start looking for a job this autumn and move on next year? What happens to the unspent money of the K99 phase?

Pepsi said...

Thanks for the wonderful insights...I would be applying from University of Hawaii.. How is that for a start ;)) comepeting against the big guns and established guys...Wodering if I could have a review from you before I send it out this June?? Not sure if this still active??

Kay said...

Thank you for this helpful information. I am now preparing a K99 application for June 2009 due. I have a big issue with my mentor---he pushed me to submit this grant (and he gives me time to write it) but he does not allow me to spend money to generate my own preliminary data. The bottom line is that my preliminary data and aim has overlapping from his R01, even though everything of my preliminary data is based on my idea. But your suggestion is that we should present preliminary data and aim which are different (but not too far) from the current mentor, right?

Another question is do we have to have an outstanding CV? I read some post saying that we should contact PO if we have possibility to get awarded by sending CV even before preparing the application. Do you agree to this? I have fairly good publication history, but not outstanding. But one of my friend got this award even she had only one first-authored paper in entire her career. I would be appreciated if can shear your opinion. Thank you.

Arlenna said...

Sorry for the late responses! I check this thread every week or two, and don't usually have so many more comments! :)

Anon 4/28: For questions 1 and 3, you'll have to talk to your program officer. You can email them and ask to set up a phone call, they are usually super nice and helpful (mine was). It's possible they might let you take the leftover K99 money with you, but sometimes they can't let you do that--it really depends on institute. For question 2, yes, I am pretty much positive you will have to give up your current fellowship--it's usually not okay to have more than one source of stipend.

Pepsi: I'd be happy to help you if there is still time. My email address is: chemicalbilology@gmail.com

Kay: It's really tough if you can't get a little bit to support you for some preliminary data--it might be worth sitting your mentor down and trying to help him understand how important that is, especially the part about it being independent for YOU and not just an extension of his R01. If it is your idea, then that is exactly the kind of thing you should be able to use for a grant like this, but just make sure he writes about how it was all your idea and he is fully supportive of you taking that project with you when you go.

For the CV thing, I think they mostly want to see that you are up and coming, active and have published a reasonable amount (although stellar will always help, it does depend on if someone wants to go to bat for you or not: the reviewer will put less emphasis on that if they really like you and your project), likely to get a faculty position soon but also still trainable. Since this is a trainee grant, they want you to look like you still need some training rather than totally ready.

Arlenna said...

Sorry for the late responses! I check this thread every week or two, and don't usually have so many more comments! :)

Anon 4/28: For questions 1 and 3, you'll have to talk to your program officer. You can email them and ask to set up a phone call, they are usually super nice and helpful (mine was). It's possible they might let you take the leftover K99 money with you, but sometimes they can't let you do that--it really depends on institute. For question 2, yes, I am pretty much positive you will have to give up your current fellowship--it's usually not okay to have more than one source of stipend.

Pepsi: I'd be happy to help you if there is still time. My email address is: chemicalbilology@gmail.com

Kay: It's really tough if you can't get a little bit to support you for some preliminary data--it might be worth sitting your mentor down and trying to help him understand how important that is, especially the part about it being independent for YOU and not just an extension of his R01. If it is your idea, then that is exactly the kind of thing you should be able to use for a grant like this, but just make sure he writes about how it was all your idea and he is fully supportive of you taking that project with you when you go.

For the CV thing, I think they mostly want to see that you are up and coming, active and have published a reasonable amount (although stellar will always help, it does depend on if someone wants to go to bat for you or not: the reviewer will put less emphasis on that if they really like you and your project), likely to get a faculty position soon but also still trainable. Since this is a trainee grant, they want you to look like you still need some training rather than totally ready.

Kay said...

Arlenna;
Thank you for your reply. I keep writing, writing, and writing...now.
You cannot imagine how many people and how much you are helping people like me here.

I will get you feedback about my experience. And your words "Do not take rejection personally" mean a lot to me---it has been heart breaking experiences and sometimes I could not "read" the review for a week after receiving it...

c_la said...

Yes, thanks for all of the info. Quite helpful. I just received the score from my first K99 submission (29). I have no idea if this is good or not since it's based on the new system. Has anyone seen posts suggesting what is fundable? Also, are percentiles provided for K99s?

Arlenna said...

Oooh, the new system! I have no idea how it works yet! That will be interesting to find out, so please check back with us once you hear from your program officer about what a 29 means. They didn't give percentiles for K99s before, but maybe they will now? Please do let us know what happens.

KM said...

I also just got a priority score for my K99/R00 submission under the new scoring system. Accordingly to my program officer, the scale is from 10-90; each reviewer scores a grant from 1 (best) to 9 (worst), and the scores are averaged and multiplied by 10. No percentiles are being offered (not to me, anyway). 10 to 30 is considered "exceptional," though I'm not sure what that means, since nobody knows yet how reviewers will grade along the new curve, so to speak.

My guess is that eventually you will be able to roughly "map" the new score (10-90) to the old scoring system (100 to 500). So a new score of 29 might (emphasis on the might) be equivalent to an old score of 195--probably not fundable on first try, though within striking distance for a revision.

But who knows, this being the first time with the new system and being an unusually flush funding situation for the NIH? It will depend on (1) the Institute, and how much discretionary stimulus money they decide to throw at K99/R00 grants, and (2) how your particular study section reacted to the new scoring system--are they conscious that the new system can be mapped relatively easily against the old system, and pick their scores accordingly, or will they start from scratch? I bet there will be a lot of variability from study section to study section.

One thing that may or may not work in one's favor--since there are no prior scores to standardize against, cutoffs will be determined purely based on this cycle's scores. If your 29 was the top of your study section's heap, you're in.

Mercy said...

Arlenna,
I submitted my K99 this Feb. Do you know roughly when I will get my priority score back?
Thanks

KM said...

Mercy,

For February submissions, study sections should be meeting in June/July. You should be able to access your priority score on eRA Commons within a few days after your study section meets. In my case it was available two days later (another few days passed before I got an official e-mail notifying me that the score was available, but I had been nervously checking eRA every day anyway).

If it's been more than a week since your study section met and there's still no score posted on eRA Commons, you may want to give your program officer a call to find out what's going on.

Mercy said...

Thank You, KM.

Anonymous said...

Hi Arlenna,
Thank you very much for posting such a detailed instructions on how to write a K99 application. I am cursing my stars for not reading this blog before submitting my A0 and A1 applications. I had committed several mistakes in my first two submissions that you mentioned not to do. For the third submission, I followed every word of your post! I just got the score - it is 13! I am not sure if it is good enough for funding by NIAID (I don't even know how it compares to old system), but definitely better than the score I got from previous submissions (A0 was 207 and A1 was 142). Thanks again.

I have my own additional list of do's and don'ts which I will add later.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous with the 13,

That looks pretty good to me! That means your average rating across the criteria was a 1.3 on a scale of one to nine. According to the scoring guidelines that falls between

"1: Exceptionally strong with essentially no weaknesses" and
"2: Extremely strong with negligible weaknesses"

There are links to the scoring guidelines at this very knowledgeable blog (which is not mine):

http://writedit.wordpress.com/2009/06/10/so-with-the-new-scoring-procedure-is-an-80-good-news/

Anonymous said...

Wow, 13-inauspicious number is going to be auspicious for you "anonymous with 13". Its a great score and it will be funded.

Man said...

Nice blog, and great comments from many others doing K99/R00.

I have submitted a new application in June 2009 (A0). I am in the 3rd year of postdoc and starting 4th year in 3 months.

I understand that K99 is a very very competitive award and given that its my first grant ever, many things could work against my favor. I wonder if I should already start looking for a job or something. If someone has gone through similar things, it will be great if they could share their experience and do's and don'ts.

TheManWithAPlan.

Arlenna said...

This is awesome, again I am really pleased that people are getting use from this guide. I am totally surprised that a 142 was not high enough to get funded, NIAID must be some crazy competition. You were probably pretty darn well-off on your A1 without me!

But 13 sure sounds like it could make it!!! Especially at A2 in ARRA year, when they will hopefully try to drag you across the payline whichever way they can.

Manwithaplan, best of luck to you, too. I started looking for jobs at the same time as applying myself, because I knew I couldn't wait and put all my eggs in that basket. Things turned out to be slightly complicated but worked in the end. Basically, we just have to do everything we can to try to make it in this crazy world (especially in the current situation), so I recommend covering all of your bases. You can always deal with the logistics and choices about how to sort out both when you get to that bridge.

Anonymous said...

Hi Arlenna,
Yes, NIAID is a crazy place! They award only 6 K99s every year (that too in 1+2 year format compared to 2+3 at other Instt). Last year the cut off was 130! So, I was way-off in my second submission. But I work on infectious diseases (that too on a Biodefense related topic)- so I had no other options!

For people who are planning on going for NIAID- general advice: make it attractive for other instt so that they can pick it up if it does not get funded by NIAID. I tried hard for NHLBI to buy it- since it is a respiratory disease- but was unsuccesful since I had too much focus on the bacterial perspective- although the final outcome would be unraveling of lung immune mechanisms. So, a general advice for applicants- make the significance as broad as possible if you are working on a pathogen related aspect and clearly state it.

After talking to my PO, it does appear that 13 is an extremely good score and most likely to get funded. But, I have to wait till March, 2010 to get the final decision (as NIAID ranks all applications submitted for all three cycles only at the end of the year since they don't have a cut-off like other instt to make awards). But, the journey of submitting and revising was a rewarding mental exercise and in fact, in the process of addressing one of criticisms of one of my reviewers, I hit upon a completely new direction- I am keeping it as a second direction to pursue once I get the job! So, second general advice (irrespective of the instt you are submitting)to all applicants: THINK SERIOUSLY ABOUT THE COMMENTS- some of them may really turn out to be jackpots! (although the reviewer may have asked for completely different or silly reasons).

Third advice: Don't lose heart. keep trying!